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	<title>Comments on: Family Ministry Conversation Day 1</title>
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	<description>Moving Children&#039;s Ministry Forward</description>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.elementalcm.com/2008/10/10/family-ministry-conversation-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-243</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elementalcm.com/?p=230#comment-243</guid>
		<description>Ok, I just want to say first that my hope in the discussion is to listen and share so together we might come closer to effectively changing families.

Aaron, you are right, parents lack spiritual understanding. Many parents I talk to would say, &quot;I don&#039;t know how to pass my faith onto my kids.&quot; But I think it is more about a lack of faith to pass on.

Dennis Rainey has always said, &quot;All parents will leave a legacy for their kids. The question is what legacy will they leave.&quot;  That was the point of my football example. We need to help change the hearts of parents so they can change the hearts of their kids.

We do play a role in reaching kids. It is a huge role.  We work to teach, encourage and build excitement. I personally want to be cautious in the ministry I lead to not develop a constant mindset of &quot;draw in kids and they will drag their parents along too&quot; 

So what does it look like?  I am not sure but I know we have to stop seeing &quot;parents&quot; and &quot;kids&quot; as separate things but instead think family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, I just want to say first that my hope in the discussion is to listen and share so together we might come closer to effectively changing families.</p>
<p>Aaron, you are right, parents lack spiritual understanding. Many parents I talk to would say, &#8220;I don&#8217;t know how to pass my faith onto my kids.&#8221; But I think it is more about a lack of faith to pass on.</p>
<p>Dennis Rainey has always said, &#8220;All parents will leave a legacy for their kids. The question is what legacy will they leave.&#8221;  That was the point of my football example. We need to help change the hearts of parents so they can change the hearts of their kids.</p>
<p>We do play a role in reaching kids. It is a huge role.  We work to teach, encourage and build excitement. I personally want to be cautious in the ministry I lead to not develop a constant mindset of &#8220;draw in kids and they will drag their parents along too&#8221; </p>
<p>So what does it look like?  I am not sure but I know we have to stop seeing &#8220;parents&#8221; and &#8220;kids&#8221; as separate things but instead think family.</p>
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		<title>By: henryjz</title>
		<link>http://www.elementalcm.com/2008/10/10/family-ministry-conversation-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-242</link>
		<dc:creator>henryjz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elementalcm.com/?p=230#comment-242</guid>
		<description>It does need to come from both sides. I don&#039;t think too many churches are having a hard time with getting to the kids, though. Not everyone gets it, but many do. Most churches have heard the spiel about how important CM is and to some extent have bought in. I wholeheartedly agree that CM is important and that it is integral to the growth of a church... The tendency, though, is to put ALL of the pressure on CM when adult ministry is just as important. So, yes, we need to reach everyone and disciple everyone.

I am just finding in my journey through this family ministry paradigm thing (at least 6 years) that we need to broaden our scope of what family ministry means. Otherwise we will just create a bigger silo that is separate from the rest of the church. Ministry needs to be holistic in approach. That take creating a culture that permeates everything from staff relations to how people relate with each other... I plan on blogging more about those thoughts in the next couple of days... I&#039;ll expand on what I mean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It does need to come from both sides. I don&#8217;t think too many churches are having a hard time with getting to the kids, though. Not everyone gets it, but many do. Most churches have heard the spiel about how important CM is and to some extent have bought in. I wholeheartedly agree that CM is important and that it is integral to the growth of a church&#8230; The tendency, though, is to put ALL of the pressure on CM when adult ministry is just as important. So, yes, we need to reach everyone and disciple everyone.</p>
<p>I am just finding in my journey through this family ministry paradigm thing (at least 6 years) that we need to broaden our scope of what family ministry means. Otherwise we will just create a bigger silo that is separate from the rest of the church. Ministry needs to be holistic in approach. That take creating a culture that permeates everything from staff relations to how people relate with each other&#8230; I plan on blogging more about those thoughts in the next couple of days&#8230; I&#8217;ll expand on what I mean.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.elementalcm.com/2008/10/10/family-ministry-conversation-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-240</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 06:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elementalcm.com/?p=230#comment-240</guid>
		<description>Well, how much do the parents know about football?  How much do they know about spiritual life change?

For example, a great many of the parents I have to minister to are just learning what that means themselves.  To ask them to pass that on to their kids is like handing them a pennant and saying, &quot;Give this to your kid to cheer for this team&quot; but the parents know very little about the team also!  

But let&#039;s be honest.  We&#039;re talking about more than a football team.  It&#039;s more than a t-shirt, more than a fan card, it&#039;s a daily push.  It&#039;s off season and in-season.  

For example, we had a worship service this past weekend specifically for families.  We promoted on both ends, BUT several parents over and over and over again said to me, &quot;My kids would wake up and ask, &#039;is tonight FUSION night&#039;?&quot; and &quot;My kids have been asking a lot about FUSION.  What is that?&quot;

No one really said, &quot;Hey, I heard the pastor talk about FUSION, so I came.&quot;  Granted there may have been a few.

To reach the parents, we do have to reach the kids.  I will not deny the opposite is true, but this is where equipping parents comes in.  This is where aligning an entire leadership team of a church comes in.  There are several models out there of course that are striving to do this with success in some areas and weaknesses in others.  The ORANGE concept and the BIG IDEA both seek to integrate parents into the strategy from all angles.  

We have to continually evaluate these and other ideas, while being willing to risk new ones to find out what works best for each individual member of the family.  We have to equip parents.  We have to equip kids.  We have to come at it from both sides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, how much do the parents know about football?  How much do they know about spiritual life change?</p>
<p>For example, a great many of the parents I have to minister to are just learning what that means themselves.  To ask them to pass that on to their kids is like handing them a pennant and saying, &#8220;Give this to your kid to cheer for this team&#8221; but the parents know very little about the team also!  </p>
<p>But let&#8217;s be honest.  We&#8217;re talking about more than a football team.  It&#8217;s more than a t-shirt, more than a fan card, it&#8217;s a daily push.  It&#8217;s off season and in-season.  </p>
<p>For example, we had a worship service this past weekend specifically for families.  We promoted on both ends, BUT several parents over and over and over again said to me, &#8220;My kids would wake up and ask, &#8216;is tonight FUSION night&#8217;?&#8221; and &#8220;My kids have been asking a lot about FUSION.  What is that?&#8221;</p>
<p>No one really said, &#8220;Hey, I heard the pastor talk about FUSION, so I came.&#8221;  Granted there may have been a few.</p>
<p>To reach the parents, we do have to reach the kids.  I will not deny the opposite is true, but this is where equipping parents comes in.  This is where aligning an entire leadership team of a church comes in.  There are several models out there of course that are striving to do this with success in some areas and weaknesses in others.  The ORANGE concept and the BIG IDEA both seek to integrate parents into the strategy from all angles.  </p>
<p>We have to continually evaluate these and other ideas, while being willing to risk new ones to find out what works best for each individual member of the family.  We have to equip parents.  We have to equip kids.  We have to come at it from both sides.</p>
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		<title>By: henryjz</title>
		<link>http://www.elementalcm.com/2008/10/10/family-ministry-conversation-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-239</link>
		<dc:creator>henryjz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 02:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elementalcm.com/?p=230#comment-239</guid>
		<description>Thanks everyone so far for the comments... Family ministry is soooo much bigger and broader than many of us would care to realize... I will post more about that one later.

Rob, my sentiments exactly... &quot;I say if we grip the parents, we grip the kids.&quot; We put so much on CM, which is important, but we need to put just as much into &quot;gripping&quot; the parents. The football example you gave was priceless... I hope you don&#039;t mind me using that one... They live and breathe football in all aspects of their life. If only we could get people (not just parents) to do the same with their relationship with God... get people to live and breathe loving God with all their hearts, souls, minds and strength and loving others as they love themselves... Wow! that would just pass on!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks everyone so far for the comments&#8230; Family ministry is soooo much bigger and broader than many of us would care to realize&#8230; I will post more about that one later.</p>
<p>Rob, my sentiments exactly&#8230; &#8220;I say if we grip the parents, we grip the kids.&#8221; We put so much on CM, which is important, but we need to put just as much into &#8220;gripping&#8221; the parents. The football example you gave was priceless&#8230; I hope you don&#8217;t mind me using that one&#8230; They live and breathe football in all aspects of their life. If only we could get people (not just parents) to do the same with their relationship with God&#8230; get people to live and breathe loving God with all their hearts, souls, minds and strength and loving others as they love themselves&#8230; Wow! that would just pass on!</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.elementalcm.com/2008/10/10/family-ministry-conversation-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-238</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elementalcm.com/?p=230#comment-238</guid>
		<description>Aaron,

I am like you. I think about it constantly and sometimes it keeps me up at night.  This morning during a great run I had some thoughts.

I always think about it from the angle of how I can help parents pass on their faith since many don&#039;t know how.  This thought came to me...is it that they don&#039;t know how or they don&#039;t have a faith to pass on?  

Parents know how to pass things on to their kids, they do it all the time.  As a matter of fact, they can&#039;t help but not pass things onto to their children.  How many parents have I talked to that are frustrated because they parent their kids the way they were parented even though they don&#039;t want to?

I live in SC near Clemson.  Clemson football is huge here! (even when they are losing) I know many kids who are big Tiger fans, all decked out in orange and white.  Some of those kids couldn&#039;t tell you anything about Clemson football. They are just fans.  The true is, dad has passed that passion onto his children.  If he can do it with football whay can&#039;t he do it with his faith?

I say if we grip the parents, we grip the kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron,</p>
<p>I am like you. I think about it constantly and sometimes it keeps me up at night.  This morning during a great run I had some thoughts.</p>
<p>I always think about it from the angle of how I can help parents pass on their faith since many don&#8217;t know how.  This thought came to me&#8230;is it that they don&#8217;t know how or they don&#8217;t have a faith to pass on?  </p>
<p>Parents know how to pass things on to their kids, they do it all the time.  As a matter of fact, they can&#8217;t help but not pass things onto to their children.  How many parents have I talked to that are frustrated because they parent their kids the way they were parented even though they don&#8217;t want to?</p>
<p>I live in SC near Clemson.  Clemson football is huge here! (even when they are losing) I know many kids who are big Tiger fans, all decked out in orange and white.  Some of those kids couldn&#8217;t tell you anything about Clemson football. They are just fans.  The true is, dad has passed that passion onto his children.  If he can do it with football whay can&#8217;t he do it with his faith?</p>
<p>I say if we grip the parents, we grip the kids.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.elementalcm.com/2008/10/10/family-ministry-conversation-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-237</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elementalcm.com/?p=230#comment-237</guid>
		<description>Great conversation going on there. Family Ministry is a paradigm, a directional shift in all standard, or seemingly standard, approaches to ministry.   

But let&#039;s be real for a second:  I think parents WANT to engage in family ministry.  I think that culturally we are at a vital stage in reaching the family.  

Do you remember when family movies did horribly?  Even the Disney giant would push hard for a #3 spot opening.  Beverly Hills Chihuahuahauahaa (I can&#039;t spell it, so I don&#039;t try) has been #1 for two weeks in a row.  It&#039;s certainly not a startling piece of cinema.  What&#039;s the trend?

Family movies have been on the upswing since mid 2002.  This isn&#039;t necessarily because they are better than they were before.  Rather, I believe, (and we can analyze reasons for it later) there is a cultural shift underway that emphasizes family.

Now - at stake in this process is how our culture defines family.  What does it look like?  If I don&#039;t understand what a family is, I can&#039;t begin to take in what the roles of each person in the family is to be.  What is the role of the parent?  What is the role of the child?  What responsibilities does each have spiritually?  

Now, what is the responsibility of the church?  

The other thing to consider is that, if you are like me at all, it is our full time job to think about these things.  I wake up in the morning with my brain turning about what can be done better.  I have dreams (sometimes nightmares?!?!) about it.  

I do know this.  Parents want to be engaged.  They want what is good for their family.  If the kids are excited, the parents are excited.   What parent, if his/her kid shows a passionate interest in something, would deny it to them?

If we grip the kids, we grip the parents.  Then we engage the parents to engage their kids at home.  It is cyclical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great conversation going on there. Family Ministry is a paradigm, a directional shift in all standard, or seemingly standard, approaches to ministry.   </p>
<p>But let&#8217;s be real for a second:  I think parents WANT to engage in family ministry.  I think that culturally we are at a vital stage in reaching the family.  </p>
<p>Do you remember when family movies did horribly?  Even the Disney giant would push hard for a #3 spot opening.  Beverly Hills Chihuahuahauahaa (I can&#8217;t spell it, so I don&#8217;t try) has been #1 for two weeks in a row.  It&#8217;s certainly not a startling piece of cinema.  What&#8217;s the trend?</p>
<p>Family movies have been on the upswing since mid 2002.  This isn&#8217;t necessarily because they are better than they were before.  Rather, I believe, (and we can analyze reasons for it later) there is a cultural shift underway that emphasizes family.</p>
<p>Now &#8211; at stake in this process is how our culture defines family.  What does it look like?  If I don&#8217;t understand what a family is, I can&#8217;t begin to take in what the roles of each person in the family is to be.  What is the role of the parent?  What is the role of the child?  What responsibilities does each have spiritually?  </p>
<p>Now, what is the responsibility of the church?  </p>
<p>The other thing to consider is that, if you are like me at all, it is our full time job to think about these things.  I wake up in the morning with my brain turning about what can be done better.  I have dreams (sometimes nightmares?!?!) about it.  </p>
<p>I do know this.  Parents want to be engaged.  They want what is good for their family.  If the kids are excited, the parents are excited.   What parent, if his/her kid shows a passionate interest in something, would deny it to them?</p>
<p>If we grip the kids, we grip the parents.  Then we engage the parents to engage their kids at home.  It is cyclical.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Yount Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.elementalcm.com/2008/10/10/family-ministry-conversation-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-236</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Yount Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elementalcm.com/?p=230#comment-236</guid>
		<description>Henry,
Amazing! I read through your thoughts and just kept nodding. I love that your heart toward parents believes the best and is filled with grace! It&#039;s the kindness of God that draws us in. That&#039;s what I always sense from you!

Sounds like you&#039;re having typical discussions around family ministry that it&#039;s many things to many people. And one size doesn&#039;t fit all. I&#039;ll look forward to reading more of your blog. Thanks for sharing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Henry,<br />
Amazing! I read through your thoughts and just kept nodding. I love that your heart toward parents believes the best and is filled with grace! It&#8217;s the kindness of God that draws us in. That&#8217;s what I always sense from you!</p>
<p>Sounds like you&#8217;re having typical discussions around family ministry that it&#8217;s many things to many people. And one size doesn&#8217;t fit all. I&#8217;ll look forward to reading more of your blog. Thanks for sharing!</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.elementalcm.com/2008/10/10/family-ministry-conversation-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-235</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 18:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.elementalcm.com/?p=230#comment-235</guid>
		<description>Great conversation!  Let&#039;s get into this one.

I do think that parents care but they lack the vision, strategy, practical &quot;how-tos,&quot; and grace-filled accountability needed to effectively nurture their child&#039;s faith.  Many times they lack a faith to pass on.

So what it is our role in all that?  We need to help provide those things I listed.  I think it is through discipleship.

Most of the people who serve in our kids&#039; ministry are parents.  So we strive to help them develop a ministry mindset and experience God working in and through them to impact others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great conversation!  Let&#8217;s get into this one.</p>
<p>I do think that parents care but they lack the vision, strategy, practical &#8220;how-tos,&#8221; and grace-filled accountability needed to effectively nurture their child&#8217;s faith.  Many times they lack a faith to pass on.</p>
<p>So what it is our role in all that?  We need to help provide those things I listed.  I think it is through discipleship.</p>
<p>Most of the people who serve in our kids&#8217; ministry are parents.  So we strive to help them develop a ministry mindset and experience God working in and through them to impact others.</p>
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